I am appalled at what is happening in America. But now that I am older, I can see that it has always been happening. America used to be big due to the available land ratio to humans. Now it is small due to the nonavailable land ratio to humans.

I see people in their late teens and early twenties shut out; land is too expensive; they can't afford school. Where will they go?

There are disasters in the world happening all the time, with organizations coming in to help recover from these disasters. I see now a lifestyle emerging of young men and women just barely out of the house, on their own, who would otherwise be homeless, following disasters, carrying their tent and blankets, hoping to find a place that gives out food to the poor, in exchange for work. This is no way to live. This is America's dirty little secret. Don't get me wrong, it is good to help others. But you have been forced into a compromise because of the very rich on this planet and how they operate. You are the travelling slaves of today's economic catastrophe.

The only way I can see to survive this dilemma, is to come together and help support each other. One person's income is not enough to survive comfortably. By comfortably, I am speaking of the basics that anybody needs: food, shelter, transportation, education. Do not be victim to any dishonest people who want to take advantage of you. Be firm about your bargains with people, get the bargains in writing, and if you must bargain for work/shelter to get food, bargain only the highest good. If your "employer" will not put his bargain in writing, leave that place. Set money aside so that you CAN leave that place!

If you have separated from your parents, I urge you to keep a little contact, please, for that is the place you may have to ask for help, or return to, to survive, some day. Form groups and coops, without any one leader telling you what to do, but form a democracy, be responsible, carry your weight, and be honest.


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I agree with your assessment of how/why hard times are coming down. Naivete on the road is not a virtue.

There is a balance to keep of self preservation and trust of others. By protecting yourself, you not only get to eat; but get to keep integrity as well. Knowing you can take care of yourself, without allowing abuse, increases your capacity to share with others; to love. Yes, Love Is the Answer! But there is little room for Love until needs like food and shelter are gained.

If you are lucky to have a birth family you can return to, treasure that option. It takes courage to not burn bridges with birth families; the great majority are disfunctional, I think. If you need to return to them, it is not a failure; times are hard. Many young people will take several attempts to autonomy. Older people are having homes and jobs pulled out from under them.

Do pull together; rent as a group with agreements up front to watch over each other's responsibility to the group. The more you share as a group: groceries, cooking, etc, the farther the money will go. In the spirit of love, service and integrity, life lived this way can be great fun and deeply rewarding... though not easy! Give up on easy.

Hope I've added something to, rather than just repeated your post, Christine. I guess I'm really just saying Yes, this is Important!

Food, shelter, and Love to All,
Hi Little Wing (sister),

You have added a great deal to the post! Thank you, you have reinforced what I was trying to say but could not find the words. Exactly.
Christine there are those whose intent it is to exploit young adults need for basics in exchange for labor. If they work, they can eat and sleep on someone's land. Most people if not all people have much the same situations across the board. Some work and pay lots of money to live where they are and they have to work, get paid by check and give the money for the food shelter and clothing etc. Then when they can't work for whatever reason, they are evicted or foreclosed upon. Same outcome albeit different avenues. What is emphasized here is families working together on land to become self sufficient via coordinated labor which builds mini infrastructure so to speak... food gardens buildings water source working with nature to provide as best they can for their group goals. Basics include other people to family with.

I have acreage in NC.. It has water. I could invite folks to live on it.. but they would have to build up our mini infrastructure much like we all have and need. Challenges are the same. and well,.....you know what I mean.

Hi Deborah,
Yes I know what you mean. I think it is coming to that again in the history of this world...people coming together to live more like our ancestors did a long time ago, more tribal. There is still land, but people have to join groups in order to afford to buy it. Either do that, or wait until everything falls apart, and that may take who knows how long.

But forming communes with no leader but everybody working together is a healthier anyway. Today things are spread way too thin. Grandparents should be taking care of grandchildren, children should learn from their grandparents. Now adays, grandparents go to live in some old folks home, while the children go to day cares. Such a waste of humans and money. So I hope people come together more and more. Have some cows for dairy, sheep for wool, and chickens for eggs. One cow can probably support three families, and everybody could take tender loving care of that mama cow so well (no one person having to do all the work), that she would think she was in heaven.

Hi Christine... The only problem I foresee in this scenerio is the idea there be no leader. Without someone to lead or with many leaders or each their own leader it will likely lead to chaos with nothing getting accomplished. There are goals... each member must be aware of what the goals are and be willing and prepared, knowlege wise, to work together to see that the goals are met. In tribes and clans and communities there are always some who formed rules and ways to enforce them.. Elders forming 'counsel' so to speak that cared for, and to emphasize "care" about problems that inevitably crop up. Some one or a counsel etc must be prepared to admonish and instruct and mediate to specific matters. There are concerns to be aware of before a group intentional community take their first steps towards inviting others to commune Many don't know how. They need education on skill basics of survival, a mini infrastructures ;how to guides; etc. or a manual for each potential community member to learn. Most of all, life as usual is so different that some won't be able to go with it.

What would your mini commune be like? How many people, how much land, what infrastructures would you's need? Will it be ground up or will money be needed to purchase supplies. Can this be done in the southwest desert areas? Arkansas with it's rocky ground? Mountains? It'll be interesting to see what an ideal mini community of self sufficients look like...

Thoughts off the top.... :)
Hi Deborah,

I am sort of afraid of leaders, as I've had experience of them being mentally or emotionally abusive, and a person ends up being a little slave to the leader. If there is a leader, couldn't it be more like a conductor of an orchestra, and everybody does their part? More like coordinator. In an orchestra, the only thing the conductor does is keep the beat and cue people when to come in, hand signals for "play softer, play louder", etc. The musicians know the music, they know what to do, but they need a coordinator because it's awful difficult sometimes to hear what's happening on the other side of the orchestra, over in the string section, when the brass section is right in your ears.

I think small village should be no larger than 250-300 people. Between the villages would be grazing land and living areas for livestock, plus farming for fruits, vegetables. From an aerial view, people living in the center, with livestock, grazing area, gardens all around. Would take about 5 minutes' walking time to get to the areas between the villages.

As far as location, probably better on flatter land, but we could still do it up here in the mountains where I live. People used to live like that one generation back. People knew how to do things then. The pastures were around the town, cattle and deer trails in the forest. Then something happened and all that stopped. I think big business took over, and made the forest into a wood industry. This small town was at one time about 300 people, now down to 75 or so. Lots of vacant houses. On the plus side, there is still forest all around for lumber, but it is being harvested and sent to China, darnit. A dam was put in so the salmon don't come up here anymore, darnit. On the plus side there are still lakes for fishing and streams to irrigate land for grazing and gardens. It could be done.
I get what you're saying about an orchestra head person... grin. I don't know if folks in rainbow family are prone to be a sole leader, generally speaking... and not exactly what I meant... It would be a lonely job... being the one only pubah. Most cultures there are a small inner circle of elderesses and elders who will be interested enough in the their success as a group to think through all possibilites before putting forth edicts,,, as in grandmothers edict. :) I absolutely believe that there must be more then two and preferably 2 men and 2 women... who come together to discuss the ways and means of the community. And responsibility should be with the senior woman to make ultimate decisions in case of a draw. Ideally IMO.... consensus of majority, agree on priorities and together using common sense and maturity, get to work. Simply.. one person with gumption can change things for the good..

I'd say, check out who owns the land you consider teaming up with. Question to ask is... is your land mortgaged? If mortgaged, then folks considering living and working there have no idea how long they can stay...you could say you're making appreciable improvements to the land (this is the intention of) for the banker and or mortgage holder. For those who don't really care... as a landholder I'd want everything to be peachy dandy but I've not yet noticed a 'what it takes' attitude to begin thoughts on offering our land for people. As landowner I'd check out all the laws that pertain to such an endeavor. If someone got hurt inside my chicken coop, can they sue me personally? Can they attach family land? If they build the coop, can they attach a builders lean? I really don't know what I'm talking about... as you can probably tell... theres more to this these days.

Do land owners offer some length of time to be on the land in exchange for labor and other personal investments? If time to depart and the person has no where to go? Gosh... to think of it can make my head spin... If the land belongs to family then ok... you'll have to adopt non biological members I suppose.. for everyone to feel like committing. OMG this is getting crazier... I hope no one reads this..


Christine, please see the comment I just posted on http://www.rainbowgatherings.org/forum/topics/guidelines-for-a-cons... Guidelines for a Conscious Community regarding the need for responsible leadership and ways to deal with that need.


Oh LOL! You are too funny girl! not wanting anybody to read this!

And too, I think I must be full of hot air. At least hot air rises to the top and out! Here's how my fantasy goes...there can't be any land owners or sueing or that sort of crap that comes from the illusion that money makes the world go round. In my lifetime I've seen money make the world go round like down the toilet. The argument, "it's not money that's bad, it's how it's used," choke choke. That argument was probably made up by a money lover. There can't be money without the insane hoarding of it. Gods and slaves. People on this planet will hoard whatever is the going thing, whether it's a pile of manure or a pile of plutonium. Oh well, either I'm living in the past, or in the future. Can't bring both ends to meet. Here I am.

I hear you on "if there's a draw, the woman gets the deciding vote" and that's the way it is in the cultures (few and far between) that prize women for their nurturing, protective, fairness qualities. But, in super power countries, where women get political positions, I've seen women with men's worst qualities, and it's scary. The only way to get in, is to be like them, sort of thing. Men are at their worst in the political lifestyle, people and countries are like pawns on a chess board. I know men here at Rainbow are not warlike, killing machines, or conscienceless.

Right now, women who rise to the presidential position in a third world country can, because they are not a threat to a super power country full of politicians who are full of self loathing. Only people who loathe themselves can mortarize and poison innocent members of the human family to sustain their rich lifestyle. Ahh, the words "super power" are so malignant as to smell of dead rotten shat upon mucous maggot carcass. In a war economy country, what would the industrial complex do with a woman who has given birth and loves all children?

Hi Again Christine, so now

It's sad but it looks like you're right. They must be willing to gut themselves of their conscience and morals for the sake of their own hide. But we are not having anymore of this. The majority feels the way you and I do. And it's nothing new, the only thing that's new is the government has been taken over by corporations with it's private money system which sounds really harsh when I say it. If they weren't so darn greedy. But it's mens nature to fk everything they can. These types (not rainbows!) think from the opposite end of their trunks.

Ok... this is almost too much information... thanks for the discussion Christine... we must keep this going. We'll get back around to the original topic sometime... lol

I commented at another place oldman but I'll say it again here... ego as we generally understand it means selfishness or something like this.   My Robert adored women in general and worshipped me.  Does that sound like a good friend or what?  grin.   He said that men will be much happier if they go along with her and give 100 percent.  He always told me that he was there to make my life as comfortable and as enjoyable as possible... Ahhh, what a man.   I miss him but it was too good.    He was almost too good to be true and yet he took good care of me for six years.   

And I doubt you'd/he'd be interested in the land I was thinking about Christine oldman.   Answering you both..

:) Kind Regards,  Deborah

Greetings, I thought I would pipe in my two cents on this issue. Thank you all for the information. we are on the same page.

There was a time when America was the land of the moral community. We had a dream of a new age of understanding and acceptance. But over the last 20 years the Moral ethics have been stripped from the dream. Now it is a dream of profit and a class based society.

The issue is with how we have changed due to the failing of morals and social communication within our society. There is no longer the feeling of belonging to a community these days. Many of the old ways of raising our nations children have gone out the window based on opinion rather then fact. At one time community council could solve most of these problems in consensuses.

But now we as a nation lack the moral fusion, or connection to understand each other at the level of brother and sister. It is now common for us to look at each other with suspension and distrust. Though it is based solely on fears that we have been programed with over the years.

Everything now days needs to be "politically correct" instead of "morally right" Kids are growing up without a sense of belonging. They lack moral direction from our society, and that makes them feel that they are tossed out or that no body cares.

Then we have those young kids having babies and teaching their own kids even less moral ethics. It is not the fault of the child or even the young parent. it is the fault of the American system on both sides. We have lost our sense of spirit and love of our people and nation. Everything is a negative and nothing seems to bring out the prospect of hope to the nation as a community except for tragedy.

And it is sad to say that Tragedy only seems to matter when it effects us directly. But when the spirit of the country rises and people start pulling together and a slim view of the Moral community that we could be shows itself it is attractive to the people who feel outcast-ed and down trodden.

Then you see the kids moving to help and eat because the belong to an effort. and the effort is important even though it has never lasted very long. Look back to the days after 9/11 or Katrina or WWI-II. Each and every time the country pulls together to do the work for the common good. It has always been the people and not the government. But in a few days or a week or two the momentum falters and people go back to being depressed and feeling isolated from there countrymen and women.

Add the decline in religion and the lack of a proper education and you can see how it slides into chaos over time. I am rambling on here but It is up to the few of us who wish to bring back the meaning of right and wrong to lead our younger generation into a more moralistic future. or I am sad to say we will have a country that fails to function due to lack of moral guidance and a sense of belonging to a community.

Smaller communities are always better then larger ones. A focus on small communities and self maintained and self structured would elevate the issue to some degree. And that is happening in the IC's that are popping up all over. I don't honestly know if we will ever gain the moral high ground if the system continues the way it is going.

peace and love



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